Jay Stewart / Hospital Clown

William Forchion interviews Laughter League Hero, Hospital Clown, Multifaceted Performer, Jay Stewart

Transcript

Intro Voice: 0:05

Welcome to a place where we're thinking together and thinking deeper about who we are. And what we do in this world. Welcome to the Billosophy podcast.

Jay Stewart: 0:18

Listen, Bobo. The Comedy guys are the ones who work.

William Forchion: 0:21

Hello, this is Billosophy 101. And I am William Forchion. Today, my guest is

Jay Stewart: 0:28

My name is Jay Stewart. And I am a long story short, I'm a clown, variety artist and physical comedian. And I've been able to pay my bills doing that for about 30 years. So I'm one of the lucky ones.

William Forchion: 0:45

What the listeners and the viewers don't know is that just before we rolled, I talked to Jay about how he was going to jump off and where he's gonna, how he's going to describe themselves. And that would be how we would run this this interview, the fact that Jay describes himself as a clown, I really think underserves the clown business. Because Jay is the quintessential clown. And he may not agree with that. But I've known him for well, around 30 years or so maybe more. And this when way back when as young baby clowns, this guy was doing something that I mean, I was I came into clowning as an actor, and Jay came to clowning. And as a clown.

Jay Stewart: 1:36

You're right. You know, I, I stumbled into this. And probably like you did bill and realized this is so open and kind of all about who I am, as opposed to a roll that some directors telling you how to do it was be what you think is funny, and what you can do for the crowd, you know, and that was why I latched on to clown and even with all the negative images and stuff that are out there, I'm still proud to call myself a clown. And to say that, you know, what I tried to do is, you know, bring some laughter and some, you know, positive feelings into this world.

William Forchion: 2:17

Right, right. Well, I just jumped in said we've known each other for 30 some odd years. And but I want to I want to flash forward. Normally I just take out take us down the long meandering road of of our connections through the years. But I want to flash forward because we have a common thing in that I worked with the Big Apple circus clown care unit in New York way back in the early 90s. And you are currently working with the laughter league in Boston. And for me, the my work in the hospitals. Actually, let's back up let's just you can you explain what the laughter league is because I can explain what the the Big Apple circus clown care unit was because it no longer exists. And but just explain what that is what it what it is with the laughter league does.

Jay Stewart: 3:03

It's It's good that that you brought up the Big Apple circus clown care unit, because that's what we were at Boston Children's Hospital for 20 years. It was the team that was at Boston Children's Hospital where I know you worked in New York. And there's they had satellites all over the place at the high point of the Big Apple circus clown care days. And, and then when they folded the tents. And when the circus kind of went under the all the clown teams were kind of left with, you know, some question marks. A lot of them gathered together under another group called healthy humor, which is what's now providing cloud teams to those same facilities. Our group went a different route. And we set up our own our own group, the laughter league. Can you see that there? Yes, we we affiliated ourselves with another group in Texas, whether it was a couple of hospitals there, our group in Boston and then also we also do Hasbro Children's Hospital in Providence, Rhode Island. So we put all that together. It's a it's a fair size. Team of laughter lead clowns. Now the idea of that is room to room, bedside visitation. And our goal is not to go in and wring the laugh out of some sick kid, it is out a predatory. Got to get the laugh, focus. I'm sure you remember. The main thing is we're there as part of the circle of care is what we call it. And we can help with some things that maybe the medical folks can't, you know, we're not going to prescribe anything and we're not going to do procedure, but we can see the emotional value in the room and we can see where people are at and it's good stress relief, and it's good. You know, to take that anxiety down a little bit through laughter and through amazement and through all the different things our team does magic music puppetry, eccentric characters, clown, you know, it's, it's, it's a really big picture for something that happens at a small level, you and I both bill have been in front of big crowds, you know, and we've had good success making huge crowds laugh, you know, Madison Square Garden on opening night, all of that, you know, it's fantastic. Somehow, that doesn't quite measure up to bedside, in the oncology unit. Right? No, this kid and this family is going through something that is horrible.

William Forchion: 5:44

And it's there's no other way to put it. There's one there, you mentioned a few different things. And just from my experience, one of the when we were when working in the hospitals, our job, you know, there's a whole team of medical professionals who are dealing with the illness, right, our job was to work with that healthy nugget of what everyone who was there, and it wasn't just the patients, it was the families, it was the caregivers, it was everyone who we were in contact was our audience. It's true. There was also one thing Michael Christensen, who was the founder of the Big Apple circus clown care unit. One of the things he said to me, he was the person who auditioned me for the conquer unit. And it helps shape everything I did, as a performer from that point on. And it was, it was about showing up, he said, Your job is to show up, just being there in the makeup. And in the weird in the lab coat, which looks like the normal part of the hospital procedure. But it says Big Apple circus clown care unit, you got to if you're wearing whatever your outfit is, that doesn't fit. It's that not fitting that makes it work. When you show up, and the doctors look and go, that's one of No, that's not one of us. Or the patient looks up and goes, you're not going to give me medicine, you know, like there's just being in Congress was 90% of the job.

Jay Stewart: 7:26

He said something to me once or actually to a group of us, but I was there. And it resonated with me in the same kind of way. He said, we, we acknowledge What's wrong, but we focus on what's right, right. And what's right is right now, we've got this moment that we can do these silly, Goofy kid things and not be a patient or the parent of a patient or a caregiver or whatever. I love it when we're working. And we're doing something with a kid and a doctor walks in. And we always kind of want to get out of the way of that doctor, but sometimes they come in and give us the nod that they're willing to play a little too. And we can bring them into something that we're doing if it's a song or whatever. One great example I always come back to is in the emergency department. We would go on Monday nights, because that's when it was very busy. And I'm not sure why. But that was when we went. And it was always, you know, you've seen TV shows about emergency departments. It's not, you know, a pretty place usually. And and you think well, why are the clowns in the way, you know, but we go back to the treatment rooms, a lot of people are waiting for something to happen, and whatever, we're not right in the middle of the triage, you know, and we're back there. And we're, my buddy and I are singing a song. It's john Denver, you know, country roads, right? Take me home to the place I belong. And then we're standing in the doorway singing to this family. And this doctor comes out and puts his head right between ours and he goes West Virginia. We did a double take. And we all we just hit it as big as we could. And it stopped everything in that area for just a second. Right? Everybody looked in and came back to it later. And I was like, you know, for that moment. We were all just enjoying that. And we weren't thinking about all the medicine and all the grief and all the anxiety and all the misery. We were people. We were human beings just engaged and enjoying

William Forchion: 9:28

what so often. So in medicine, they're constantly looking for, you know, like the QR the this and what I find in the this the hospital clown is that more often than not you it's not that you create miracles, but you open that doorway and create a rift where miracles can seep in where they can or that they can be seen and made visible in that moment. And the miracles don't always happen to be these big phenomenon. Things like there is no degree in miracles. It's not like that was a lesser miracle. And this is a bigger miracle, that moment when the kid who you know, or the parent who just hasn't seen hope, or light, and they see you, and that shakes them up so much that they open that door and go, I see there's hope here.

Jay Stewart: 10:19

Yeah, that was great. We another example of what you're talking about, was so great. There was a kid who was nonverbal. He was on the spectrum, when we see a fair amount of kids who were dealing with that families dealing with it, it's it's a, it's a tough thing. And I my, my heart goes out to them. But I found that often, those folks who are on that spectrum, it's not like they're not perceiving their world. It's not like they're not aware, you know, it's just, I'm not, I'm not a physician, I can't explain it. But I do know that they respond in their way. And we, a great example of that was, we came up to this kid, and it was I think, again, it was in the emergency department, because it was an area where there was a bunch of, you know, bays, where people were waiting for a dock or whatever. And we can walk in and we're playing around. And we were telling jokes to one of the other people, we were like joking around, and we said, well, what, why does a wear, you know, something that I can't remember what the setup was, but as we said that the setup, the kid who's nonverbal goes, because it's hammer time. And we were like, you know, we didn't even know that he was nonverbal. Right? Because we hadn't gotten the whole rundown or anything we walked out with, like, you know, why'd the chicken cross the road? Right? And because it's hammer time, and then I mean, every head swiveled, and looked, and we thought, okay, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, we started doing our ever dance. And, and, because I just did have to reference this kid knew, right? He knew, somehow. And so we did hammertime for a few minutes. And later, we were still in the general area, but another other side of it. And one of the nurses came over and just said, I don't know if you knew that that kid was nonverbal. It hadn't said anything for years. And suddenly you guys come in, and he's saying hammertime I've often wanted to send MC Hammer that anecdote so maybe you get him to watch this. Hammer time reaches everybody, right? You know, it's universal

William Forchion: 12:31

hammer, time crosses through and into the clown world, right?

Jay Stewart: 12:37

You gave us a great intro for that dance. And some my buddy has a ukulele he plays really well. And he started playing. And we did we did a little dance and stuff and and the room just went I mean, the energy went through the roof.

William Forchion: 12:50

And I know that anybody here if you pass it on to MC Hammer that his what he did way back when was healing now, you know, exactly.

Jay Stewart: 13:00

I'd be proud, you know, if I was him, I was proud just that this silly joke, you know, that got the kid to to respond. He was a little bit older kid to what like a little kid, it was probably, you know, I don't know, mid teens.

William Forchion: 13:13

But this I mean, this, obviously, just like in my world, the stepping into the hospital stuff was very transformative. Now let's back up. Let's go do a regression trail. How did you get there? How did you like where? So let's because clouding has been transformative in your world, and how you're doing it? Where did you start? How did you get into this? Would you start as a kid going, I want to be a clown. Or I heard that no.

Jay Stewart: 13:43

To be honest, I had no reference of clown as a as a young person I didn't want I'd never even seen a circus. My dad said he took me when I was little, but we didn't go, you know, it wasn't a regular thing. I didn't have a frame of reference for what a clown was to be honest. But I was exposed early to physical comedy, and the great old golden age of you know, physical comedians with Chaplin and Keaton and Laurel and Hardy, and, you know, the silent guys. And then when it came into talkies and bringing in, you know, some of the other Abbott and Costello and Marx Brothers and so I my dad was a formative for me in that regard. He introduced us all of us kids to that stuff. In an early age, there was a little village in Raleigh, North Carolina. And there was a little, you know, art house cinema that showed old stuff like that, you know, like a Chaplin Film Festival. We go see city lights and the kid and the circus and, and some of the other movies that Chaplin made thing with Buster Keaton, and the Laurel and Hardy ones were the ones that I always remember but like my favorite movie forever, and it's still kind of his his city lights by Charlie Chaplin. If you haven't seen that one. guys find it because brilliant in high school, I was the editor of the high school newspaper, I was convinced I was going to go into journalism. So I was gonna be an English major. I know you're laughing now cuz you know me now, but then I was, I was serious. I was trying to do and, and I was gonna do the whole the whole round.

William Forchion: 15:20

Just for a moment, just so you know, what you didn't know is that I also thought I was going to journalism. My junior year of high school, I went to a journalism workshop for minorities and was run by the the Philadelphia daily news editor. And it was serious deal. Yeah. I was like a writing.

Jay Stewart: 15:42

Yeah. Well, what I figured out through doing the high school paper was, yeah, it was a lot of work. And also, I hadn't, didn't have a whole lot of interest in news. My thing was, I would really have been better doing like, a literary magazine, or something like that, where it was, what I enjoyed was writing stories and telling stories and doing and so all I became the editor, because I guess I was the only one who would take the gig. I don't know. But our newspaper always ended up being mostly feature articles, you know, and just junk. The news was pretty small. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, that was it. And so then I go to college, and I'm thinking, Okay, I'm going to get into this. And we'll do all that. And I took drama appreciation as an elective, thinking all characters as easy, as easy a, oh, watch some movies, you know, go to a play be great. And I'm sitting there in class first day, and the director walks in, of the entire, I'm taking his class. He's the director of the whole theater department, he walks in, and then my eyes just went blank. Like, I mean, the guy was, he was intimidating. He was inspiring. He was riveting. He held focus with no effort whatsoever. He was one of those guys. And I just sat there and went, that's something I want, I want to be able to walk in a room and own it. I want to I want to be somebody who's that, that to gather. You know, I he, his name was Dr. James Oliver link. And he's sadly passed on now but became a real mentor for me and did encourage me, and I actually, for that class, if you auditioned for the mainstage play, you got extra credit. So I went to the audition. And he cast me. And that was it. The next four years at that school, I was on stage every time there was anything. So in a way you and I both sort of came at it from a theater at least.

William Forchion: 17:43

Yeah, here's,

Jay Stewart: 17:44

I kept thinking that I was going to be the next sir Laurence Olivier, and that I was going to be cast as Hamlet and, you know, speak the speech. I pray you, you know, it's going to be all that and he kept casting me as a stooge. I was poverty relief in every play. Finally, I said, Dr. Link, just wondering, you know, can I can I, you know, what can I do to step up out of these stupid roles? And he goes, What are you talking about? I said, Well, you know, I'd love to play like, normally the lead role says, Look, he called everybody Bobo instead of name. is hunting dog was named Bobo. All right. That's what Allison Bobo, you're, you're in the most important place in the show. Your comedy relief? Yeah, we got to have that. I can't, I can't waste you in a lead role. I was like, wait a minute. And I'm coming out, I'm falling down. I'm getting a laugh, and I leave and then everybody else is the ones taking the big bow at the end and go Wait a minute, you know, but I realized, he also said to me, Listen, Bubba, the comedy guys are the ones who work. Those lead guys are all fighting. They're all fighting to get jobs. A good character actor will always get work. And I went, Oh, if I really want to do this, if I want to pursue this, you know, okay. Well, then I went to grad school. Bill. All right. Wave that one in front of you. Yeah. I didn't want to try to find a job yet. So I had a chance to go. I had a chance to go to grad school. So I was like, okay, they offered me good financial aid and stuff. So I was like, Okay, I'll do that. While I was there. I met another professor who was amazing. Jim darting from London, actually from Northern England, but lived in London, and he would come over and spring and do this big spring musical. And this guy was as inspiring but from a different way instead of scaring your pants off. This guy. Just he was all about love. It was just like this guy. Just he loved everybody that he met. He was this big, open hearted guy. I remember thinking oh my gosh, you know, he's so great. And he says to me, Jay, you follow? down Well, you should look into physical comedy and clowning. And I said, Hmm. Those were it was weird to me. It was like, Okay, here's this guy who I'm getting a degree in theater and legitimate kind of stuff. And he wants me to go be a clown. I mean, I'm like, You mean like birthday parties and stuff like that? Well, about that time the circus came to town, Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey, and they had an audition for the clown college. And so he and a couple other people, that friends of mine said, you got to go do that. You should go on the audition. And I was like, Is that why people?

William Forchion: 20:37

put you out with the trash?

Jay Stewart: 20:41

I literally got dragged to the thing. Okay. I said, Get in the car. I'm taking you to it. Because I said, you know, it was that the it was cross. You know, it was it wasn't close where the audition was. And I was like, I don't know if my car will make it and you just get in the car. I'm taking you. So I literally get dragged to the audition and walk into the circus, you know, building the arena, right? Greensboro, North Carolina. You probably remember that.

William Forchion: 21:05

Yeah. Okay.

Jay Stewart: 21:07

There's elephants in that ring was aerialists over here. And then the centering as clowns running an hour long workshop of improvisation and physical gags and show me what you got kid. And it was almost exactly what I was doing. For the whole six years I've been in school, right? I was just like, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is it. And I looked at that guy who brought me in I went, I can't thank you enough for bringing me to this. I was like, I'm, I'm doing this period. It worked out my the faculty were cool. And I went and did it. And then I ended up getting a job out of it. That's when I met you and got on the road in two years at that time. And then I realized that I didn't go back and finish I would have wasted. I did all the coursework, then went to clown college. And then I had to go back and write the thesis or the degree, but didn't do that I would have wasted all that time. So I left I went back and finished the degree and got the degree. And then I was lucky enough. Bill, I'll say it, you're looking at a very lucky guy. And I understand that it's a lot of it is my privilege. You know, I own it. I say yes. I don't know what I did to deserve this other than just be who I am. And white guy, okay. I'll take it. I'd say it happened. I don't ever want to rely on that. I don't ever want to ask for it. But at the same time, if someone gives me a chance at something, I'm going to work so hard that they want me back again. And they're gonna go Oh, yeah, I get it isn't just because j is this name. We know what he does. And he wants you know, that's, that's that's my thing in this work that we do. Now. I always say nothing more important than your name. You can have a great you know, press kit and the perfect headshots on. But if you come in and you're a jerk and you don't do the job, you're never getting another chance with those. So I think is I believe people want me to come back is my whole take on it. Like I may have had a foot in the door and been lucky and gotten some things to break my way. There's nobody's gonna outwork me. Oh,

William Forchion: 23:09

look at I mean, I remember time, our time in the alley. I had already done the gold unit in Japan. And then we worked on the red unit together. And I mean, you stood out. You were a white face. You am there's something. So there's another thing you talk just talking about your privilege. And there the your character choice was a white face and a white face is erudite. It's the upper like of the strata of clowning. That is the the highbrow that is, you know, it's the white face is never the butt of the joke. It's not that normally typically, yeah, and wrangling it gets a little bit cloudy, because you can have a white face that doesn't really fit the the true, right? There are some people who make their choices. And you go, why did you do you know, I totally not your character. And I felt like that was your character. Although, you know, I do have memories and thinking, Man, that dude is, you know, like, he's was, you know, born with a golden spoon spoon and sitting on the golden egg. And that, you know, but there is also something that was you were quite humbled in your in your loftiness because I understand you did, you did, put the pin in your own balloon and have your moments of, I realize that I'm just full of hot air right now. And you bring yourself down a bit. And it was

Jay Stewart: 24:35

I'll say this bill, thank you for the nice, nice words. The other thing was, in my, in my time of development, which is what I consider my whole career is development. But at that point, what I had done, particularly at clown college, was to say, okay, you know, build a character, just like we did on stage when we were gonna play a role. You know, you had to you had to find out what we're about you could make that character real. And so I was building a character. And somebody said, well look for character references that you know, would be something that you. And what I had always loved was the dancing frog from that old Warner Brothers cartoon.

William Forchion: 25:14

Hello, my baby. Hello, my honey, you know,

Jay Stewart: 25:16

and so I thought, I'm gonna be the showman, that's going to be me. And that's why I went that whole white base elegant look, you know, they kind of steered me towards that European kind of white face look. So it was a little off. It was a little weird looking, I always thought, but, but it helped me to play that sort of flashy thing. I had the sequence and all that crap. And then as I was working, I realized that where I was getting laughs and the bread and butter of what I did, was the slapstick stuff. I was actually pretty good at my level. I didn't take the big falls, you did, as I recall, made of rubber this guy bouncing all over the but

William Forchion: 25:54

now I'm like, I'm paying for it right now. So just so you know,

Unknown: 25:57

aren't we all?

William Forchion: 25:58

Are we all?

Jay Stewart: 25:59

I'm sure you are more than me. But it's uh, that was the thing was I realized that that's, I can't really do what I do. In you know, I sort of went the mo Howard route, because then I could be the smarter guy. Supposedly, I could be tougher, and I could still get into slapstick stuff, but just be the one throw in the slabs. Right?

William Forchion: 26:21

So you you decided to be the smart idiot?

Jay Stewart: 26:26

Yeah. In the study, you said the strata of the idiots. The white base usually thinks he's here when usually he's actually down here. But but it was it was a phase I would say for me. When I I left the circus after a couple years, went back to school, all that and I had a chance to do some other things that really informed who I was and who I was pitching myself as a performer actually did The Three Stooges show I don't know if you know, I did that in Vegas for almost three years. I was a Moe and Larry impersonator. So all of that added up. And then I would just say all that was part of what I did. And then I walked into this hospital clowning thing. I moved to New England. My wife was from here. And it's been a great choice for me to live up here. So I said, Hey, we're looking for clowns in the hospital up there. I was like, oh, a gig for clowns. Okay, I had heard about the cloudcare. I didn't really know what it was, but I knew people, good people I knew had done it. I was okay. So I wanted to audition. And then I realized, Jay, you've got nothing that is going to walk you, you've gotten sick. I mean, honestly, you're not gonna have a pie fight, you're not gonna knock people down, you're not gonna do anything that you've spent your entire career doing. So, what I really had to realize and register was the only thing I had, because I wasn't a pocket magician. I didn't care. I wasn't really much of a juggler, I didn't carry anything like in my pockets, that that would work as a thing. I didn't play, you know, music harmonica or you know, easily, nothing transportable. You know, I was like, right? What am I? What am I going to do? And I realized the only thing that I had was the character work. I mean, that was what I had. That's why I was a clown to begin with. Not because I was a juggler, or stilt Walker, or any of those things that I've added since then, well, when I what I got attracted to was the character work, right. And I said, that's what I've got to focus on. I got to make that my calling card because there's guys on our team, you know, and have been over the years who, you know, it's they're musicians and funny musicians and in great what they do, then there's people who are magicians and funny and clown magicians, you okay? It's fantastic what you do there, I don't do any of that. So this idea of Jay as the white face, smart guy, blah, blah. You know, I knew that I couldn't find a way to make that work bedside, right. Get us and all of that. And go on to being the stooge, and being back to my days of, you know, the the physical comedy guy. And so I've got some big hearted, generous partners that I work with, who let me be the stooge. And I'm Les that, you know, my Southern roots. I'm a bumpkin, you know, from the Carolinas,

William Forchion: 29:23

there's a lot of I mean, there's you've met you have wrapped up, you're so much wrapped up in that in how just your path and where you are. One of the things that keeps popping up that I keep forgetting to ask is, what is your the name of your clown doctor?

Jay Stewart: 29:38

Oh, that's it. That was just saying, I decided when I started doing this, that what made me stand out, up here was my voice. People would always look at me and go, where are you from? You know, and so I was like, Well, I'm a southerner. I mean, I am. I'm, you know, that's my, that's my history. And that's my base. So I'm a southerner. And honestly, if you want to be the stooge in New England, being a southerner is like the shortcut to this huge, right?

William Forchion: 30:13

I'm not, I'm not gonna own it, own it.

Jay Stewart: 30:17

I have a master's degree. I'm not as you know, no, I'm not gonna go that way. If it helps me get the desired effect. I'm more than happy to play the stooge. So I my character is, Doc. Because we all mimic, you know, medical professional. Everybody's got a doctor or nurse or whatever name, but I just went with Doc, and then a nickname that you've probably heard before. Skeeter. Now is a great clown, Skeeter Reese. Hey, speeder. That guy, known him for a while. I actually just saw him a couple years ago, we were in Vegas for a reunion and Skeeter came, it was great. But my grandmother called me that when I was a kid that, like you're an annoying little mosquito eater, you know, and it was and that was a term that just kind of resonated with me and it felt Southern and it felt like a annoying little kid, which was what I was 10 and so I went with doc Skeeter. But mostly people just call me Doc, you know, what's up, Doc? That kind of thing. So I wear overalls, tool belt. And I'm actually the handyman, they always say, you know what kind of doctor you are. I can't be a doctor all the time. And I gotta make some money. Right? So handyman will come in, I've got you know, gonna, we got a work order to fix your door over here. Sorry, we're just gonna, you know, I've got these fake tools and stuff and we banger but it's a, it's a framework to use some of the physical stuff that I enjoy doing. And so it's character driven, if I'm there to fake hammer, and I go to bang on. And then I got a fake thumb. That's this big. You know, I can do some of these cheesy bits. For Kids. You know, I'm not right. But on the way

William Forchion: 32:00

it's funny because that was one of my choices of what when I was a clown doctor was I was Dr. Su bone. And underneath Dr. Su bone, it said diesel maintenance. There you go. Yeah, I would go in and go What what? diesel maintenance? I just Yeah, I was like, well, I will fit diesel fix this and diesel fix that. And yeah, my only tool was a rawhide dog bone, that. So I used that as my hammer. That was a wrench that was my my dog bone.

Jay Stewart: 32:35

I love it. I love it. It was honestly, it was an easy choice for me to go with that I had been a maintenance man, for another gig that we did. We had a team of performers in Myrtle Beach for a couple of years after we left the circus. And one of the strolling characters I did at some of the properties that were there was his maintenance guy. So I had the safety orange, you know, and the cap and all thing. But everything I'm covered in band aids and finger splint, given the safety lecture to people, as I wrap myself in the head with a hammer, and so that was that was sort of transporting what was successful about that in this actor character. But like I said earlier, it's all in development, and it changes door to door, you know what I mean? I mean, in some rooms, I'm actually the, the, I'm the lead, or whatever you call them, that I'm the high status guy, you know, it changes depending on the moment. And then and then the thing, and that's when you know, you're working with somebody and you're really attuned of what's going on. You know, not only for the patient and the family and many of the staff, but also your partner, you know, that the give and take, you have to have with the partner to be able to make that thing, that little visit that little, four or five minutes that you're in there, like you said earlier to make that be that magical thing. But as you exit, you leave on a high note and those kids are laughing or they're at least you know, we're depending on where they are physically there. They're engaged, and they're, they're going to talk about a cup, but that being talked about it being the shimmer, yeah, after you leave, a lot of times we'll get people, members of our team to come in and street clothes, and just follow or maybe go into a waiting room ahead of us and sit down. And then we wait a couple minutes and then we come in and they get chance to see the effect that actually they have, you know, because people you know, when you're doing it, you don't necessarily see. So we call it shadowing. So on a shadowing day, you get a chance to go in and watch to other people work. And you know, it can be in some ways frustrating. Oh, they missed that bid. I would have done this, you know, you're like critiquing but at the same time he's the response. Other people? Because I can't tell you how many times bill, you've probably heard it two people say, clowns in the hospital. But But aren't you like in the way, aren't you like, distract? And I can understand why people say that. But what they don't understand is anybody who's there needs a laugh. One thing, anybody who walks in that building probably needs a laugh. But also, I don't think even the families and stuff even know how much they need something that is not medical. At that moment.

William Forchion: 35:34

Yeah. There's also something that was said, and I think it was a doctor who said it. He said, everyone who is the folks who are here, don't want to be here, right? There's the only ones. And when the clowns are here, the only ones who actually want to be here are the clowns. And what you what the clowns get to do is change that shift that for everyone, for doctors, nurses, attendants, maintenance people, everyone who we are in touch with, because we're purposefully there, not to treat not just to be there. And we transform that and there are people that I encountered during my time in the hospitals, who knew which days we were in which hospitals, and were there, they would make sure that they were visiting whoever, or they're on those days. So they get a moment, a spark of that some of that glimmer, just just by us, just catching a glimpse of us coming out of an elevator or walking down a hall, not because they're going to be in a room with us. Right? Also, how it changes in that room is that you have you know, we're mainly dealing with the kids, but to have a kid who, who is looking forward to a moment in the hospital, because it's not a poke, prod anything move. It's just another moment, a moment in the hospital. And a moment in which you know what the doctors, that's one thing you don't want is you don't want to show up and get surprised by what's going to happen next. Right. Whereas when the clouds walk in, you kind of want to be surprised by what's going to happen next.

Jay Stewart: 37:09

Yeah, it's great. And you touched on something that I always say is that I look at that nose, that we were the clown nose. And so some of the people that's pretty much all they were, I mean, they don't wear a lot of makeup, not like we did, no white faces, none of that, you know, it's very minimalist, much warmer, because it's up close. You know, you don't need all that because you're not trying to reach the back of an arena. You're just trying to be a close, but that knows is an invitation to play.

William Forchion: 37:43

I want to ask you a question before we get done. And we're talking about the laughter league. We talked about Ringling Brothers, we talked about you going to college getting your master's degree. What I want to dig up some dirt here, what role What part? What in your career? Did you take on that job that you were like, oh, my goodness, this is like, every day of work is like I surgery. I don't want to be here. And you know it? Did you have a part of your career? That man that was like that?

Jay Stewart: 38:15

I do. You know, I always say that I wouldn't change any of the decisions that I made along the route, because it all made me who I am. But some of them were because you learn what you don't want to do. Right? Yeah, no, it's not. You learn more from failure than from success. That's an old saying I think it's true. I will say that. I spent one year while I went back to college to finish my master's degree. I spent that year the way we say it is under the arches. Oh, yes. Yeah. And I spent one year doing that gig in North Carolina, while I finished my degree at Wake Forest.

William Forchion: 39:00

If I wait, hold on, if I may. I'm gonna give a little bit more of a hint. Yeah. I'm not gonna give it away. But it was a clown in a corporate setting. Exactly. International. Oh, yeah. Roll. Yeah.

Jay Stewart: 39:17

And there's people out there who will tell you that that is the that was the greatest gig in the whole world for them. For me, I had a very different experience, and it was not good. And I if I had wanted to dedicate, you know, five to 10 years to build that up into something, it may have become that I know people who, you know that that corporate clown thing kind of went away recently, right? For a multitude of reasons, but one of which was the whole scary clown thing. And I felt lucky at the time to get in. And then once I started doing I realized that it It wasn't a character that I had any connection to it wasn't a chance for For me to grow, it was really restrictive.

William Forchion: 40:05

Now we've been chatting here for quite a bit, and I, we haven't even covered. So much of your experience, I'm gonna have to have you back on here we're gonna talk about the stuff, we're gonna have to get deep into philosophical ideas and opinions about the clowning and, and performance, physical theater, physical comedy, I mean, there's so much more that we can we can talk about, what I like to ask is, and I like I didn't even do many my plugs, my mid roll my enroll. So I will do some of that, at the end. What I want to ask is, in your life, so you have, you've had a life you've lived, you've had this experience and a lot of experiences. If you could go back to your younger self, at any age, and give yourself some advice with the knowledge that you have now, what would you give? What advice would you give your younger selves self?

Jay Stewart: 41:00

I've actually been asked this before, and I had to give it some thought. And so you're gonna benefit from that. From that time spent, I would say to myself have some competence, because I felt I spent a lot of time feeling like I had a lot to prove. And I felt like, in my early high school, college, early days, I felt like I had to work harder than anybody else to achieve anything. And I'm not saying that that hasn't benefited me, in a lot of ways, because it has, but I think I probably could have had a little more competence and understood that things didn't have to be a fight to make it right. You know, I thought a lot of times, I had to prove I was the funniest guy in the room. And I was operating it at this level all the time. And as I've gotten older, and I've now I just I look back at that, and I go, boy, I I wasted a lot of brain energy and room in my in my head, feeling like I had something to prove that your sign back there I am enough. That speaks to me. Because there was a lot of time that I didn't feel that that was true for me. I felt like I needed to be something more than what I am. And so if I could convince myself of those days, if I could go back to that guy and go, Hey, J come here, and really tell him that and convince him of that. I think that other things would be easier for me as I as I went forward. But at the same time, I'm sure a lot of people look at the stuff I've had a chance to do. And I'm like, oh, everything's easy for J. And it's like, well, on the outside, it always looks like that. You never know what's going on. Somebody told no. Yes. You know, and so that's the thing is that I go that confidence to say I'm enough, would have helped me a lot, right. And Ed, I came in sort of very competitive and very, you know, skeptical and seeing people as as competition, but it is the thing that I look back on now. And I think of specific instances and I go, you know, if I just calm down a little bit, much easier, you know, this to get something done, you know? So it's it's life lessons that time teaches you and all that stuff that you hear it's true, you know, Time heals all wounds and time teaches lessons.

William Forchion: 43:40

Now I'm going to ask you one of the questions. You're the first one, I'm asking this question in my new series of questioning. We are in a tough times we're in right now. There's a lot of unrest. There's a lot of civil unrest, there's a lot of political unrest. And without getting into politics without even getting into any, you are now thrust. So imagine you are thrust into a position of leadership you are taking over. And you're leading this nation and maybe even larger, so I don't know, director of the UN. In your leadership role. What do you see is a way of uniting us again, how do we resolve the issues that we're, we're facing?

Jay Stewart: 44:21

You know, Bill, that's an awesome question. And obviously, if I had the perfect ABCD answer for that, I would not be sitting here in my basement doing this with you. I'd probably be you know, helping in the real world. But it seems to me that what what what would help is if there was a way to propose a way to have peep this. Whenever I've been in charge of some kind of group like say boss clown on Ringling or run on our trip in Myrtle Beach or now with the laughter like this that there has to be equity and equality among the people, they all have to feel that they're working towards a goal that we're all going to benefit by pulling together. There's no way that our team, the laughter league is going to have the effect that it can have. If there's infighting, and people who meet, there's always going to be some people who don't really get along. But they have to put the The goal of the team first. And I think our guys do our clowns do that. And then on Ringling, we did it to an extent, our team and Myrtle Beach was great. We had people who were really dug in and wanted to wanted to make the thing go and make it, you know, real. So I think my thing is build ensemble, you have to build ensemble, you have to make people feel important and feel like their contribution is as good. As you know, from my old days of being the stooge on stage, I got to feel as important as the lead guy, you know, right. So lessons there, that I would need to really work in my head and extrapolate forward. But there has to be that feeling of coming together, as opposed to always looking for what divides. And I, like I said, If I had the answer to that, I'd probably be writing books and be much more famous than, than some of the people who are in office. Now.

William Forchion: 46:23

I think you just gave a really, I mean, it's clear. It's simple. It's simple. That's

Jay Stewart: 46:31

a great quote. That I think helps. I think it was Eisenhower, President Eisenhower said, an effective leader takes all the blame when things go wrong, and gives away all the credit. When things go well, it always comes back. Really Any question? Any any thing that you can talk about, like that? goes back to humanity and being human and being somebody who's able to write well,

William Forchion: 47:01

right? Yeah,

Jay Stewart: 47:03

if you can be welcoming and open and, and that shouldn't be restricted by any outside element you want to put on it.

William Forchion: 47:12

Mj Stewart, I just want to say thank you so much. Like I said, we could go on and on and on for this is going to be one of the longest podcast I know. Because there's so much juice, a juicy here to chew on,

Jay Stewart: 47:25

people will be hanging up on this.

William Forchion: 47:28

I don't want to hear that guy anymore. Yeah. Jay Stewart, thank you so much for joining me on the philosophy podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure. I'm so glad to have you in the fold of my life, and my professional career. And just to be connected with you, and thank you so much for joining us.

Jay Stewart: 47:46

Bill, you've got a huge heart. And I love you. And thank you for inviting me to this. And I, I know some of what you do, and that you you know, you just want to find some sanity in the world and unity and Let's be together. And I love that and I love you for it. So So call me anytime. But I'll come back.

William Forchion: 48:07

Thank you. This is the Billosophy one oh one podcast. If you like what you see, and you want to get more of this, please, you can subscribe, you can become a Patreon patron and help make this possible. Because this is all produced. This is my house, what you're hearing is car noises because I no longer have my studio setup that I had before. This is all from my heart from because I want to share my friends with the world I want to share some amazing people that I've encountered in my travels with the world. So once again, you can you can be a Patreon patron at Billosophy 101 or William Forchion. I don't know which one it is. You can also find the podcast wherever you find podcasts. You can also if you don't want to go through Patreon you can just plain send me money through Venmo or for cash app using Billosophy one oh one. And remember, just remember this move forward with passion and purpose. every morning and every night. Look at yourself in the mirror and say I am enough because you are enough. Thank you so much for joining me here today. Billosophy family.

Jay Stewart: 49:13

Thank you, Bill.

Intro Voice: 49:21

Thank you for listening to the Billosophy podcast. Keep checking in as we will be regularly releasing new episodes.